This tool says "Xcode replacement" and "Xcode-free development". I thought there is no way they can build apps without Xcode. How would they replicate the libraries, compilers, etc.
I dug more and of course they don't: "Though we don’t rely on the Xcode build system, you still need to install Xcode for the iOS SDK and toolchain"
I think they should clarify their messaging. This is not a replacement or an alternative. It's a layer on top designed for what they think is a better experience.
I think you are mixing some different concepts here. It's not that this is a layer on top of Xcode/xcodebuild, it's just that Apple today happens to package everything iOS/Swift-related together with Xcode releases. So even if you couldn't care less about the Xcode IDE itself or the xcodebuild build system, you still need to have it because this is the only way for you to download / install those toolchains. Apple could provide these separately, but they just don't.
Would it be possible to get just the SDK from the Xcode package? Like Asahi installer streams only the relevant parts of macOS images from Apple’s servers.
But that's wrong. You don't need macOS. That's why they say "cross-platform Xcode replacement". You just need the SDK, which can be used on every platform.
IIRC, you need to run on Apple hardware for a valid SDK license. VM or Asahi or Hackintosh would suffice, but not a VM on a random Linux box. Or did the terms change lately?
AppCode
A smart IDE for iOS/macOS development
AppCode is no longer available as a commercial product as of December 14, 2022.
https://www.jetbrains.com/objc/
It seems that Fleet will support building XCode apps. It looks like a big regression from AppCode. As of today Fleet doesn't compile my macOS app. I try regularly on new updates. No alternatives, unfortunately
Epic Games sure is proving to be a formidable opponent, but they might be getting a little optimistic with thinking that Fortnite will be allowed to return to the App Store; after all, while they have been squabbling over App Store policies, I don't think any of the rulings imply that Apple still can't keep specific titles banned from the App Store at their discretion. In that particular case I kinda feel like Apple might be right to not be afraid, at least not right now.
(P.S.: Personally, I initially thought Epic Games was stupid for flagrantly violating the ToS on purpose. Was that really needed to actually file the lawsuit? I dunno; I'm no expert. But it looked stupid. It looks a lot less stupid now, but it still kinda looks like a tactical mistake.)
Maybe they needn't be afraid here either, but from a risk perspective it does seem like causing a stink here may not be their best move. They're still going to aggressively try to railroad people into developing on Mac; there's no iPhone Simulator on Windows or Linux after all.
Epic Games may do some despicable things too (this is about micro-transactions after all), but (as a software developer) in this fight I still find it reasonable to root for their side - them winning improves the world for a lot of us.
iMessage can be made to work with a hackintosh. You just have to go the whole way in making your hackintosh fully Mac-like with a fake but plausible/realistic serial number and expected network setup. You can’t stop at just getting macOS installed and booting.
I’ve had multiple installs in the past where it worked fine.
Is this the case? How does that work? Genuinely curious. I remember I had macOS (Mac OS X, actually) on my PC. My last Hackintosh was Mac OS X Leopard. Everything seemed to work well... back then. I even had XCode working.
Yeah weird world. When Gates bundles IE that no one wants it's an abuse of power but when Jobs shoves his apples down your throat just to (try to) publish for their platform it's all OK.. Oh, or was that the lawsuit waiting to happen? ;)
Same thing with the bank bail out, if Bush did oh my we will never hear end of it, but if cool president who smokes weed and get down some good music, then no one really call him out on it.
This tool says "Xcode replacement" and "Xcode-free development". I thought there is no way they can build apps without Xcode. How would they replicate the libraries, compilers, etc.
I dug more and of course they don't: "Though we don’t rely on the Xcode build system, you still need to install Xcode for the iOS SDK and toolchain"
I think they should clarify their messaging. This is not a replacement or an alternative. It's a layer on top designed for what they think is a better experience.
I think you are mixing some different concepts here. It's not that this is a layer on top of Xcode/xcodebuild, it's just that Apple today happens to package everything iOS/Swift-related together with Xcode releases. So even if you couldn't care less about the Xcode IDE itself or the xcodebuild build system, you still need to have it because this is the only way for you to download / install those toolchains. Apple could provide these separately, but they just don't.
Would it be possible to get just the SDK from the Xcode package? Like Asahi installer streams only the relevant parts of macOS images from Apple’s servers.
There are some components that may be downloadable separately but they really are part of Xcode. One ring to rule them all.
It sounds like this "cross-platform xcode replacement" isn't cross-platform, and ios app developers still need macos?
But that's wrong. You don't need macOS. That's why they say "cross-platform Xcode replacement". You just need the SDK, which can be used on every platform.
IIRC, you need to run on Apple hardware for a valid SDK license. VM or Asahi or Hackintosh would suffice, but not a VM on a random Linux box. Or did the terms change lately?
JetBrains used to develop AppCode:
It seems that Fleet will support building XCode apps. It looks like a big regression from AppCode. As of today Fleet doesn't compile my macOS app. I try regularly on new updates. No alternatives, unfortunately
Fleet will also most likely get abandoned as people who pay for an IDE highly prefer the older one and people who want VSCode use VSCode
I also think any revival of AppCode is also dead as JetBrains is all in on Kotlin everywhere. iOS multiplatform support hit stable recently.
What's Fleet?
https://www.jetbrains.com/fleet/
Also https://forums.swift.org/t/xtool-cross-platform-xcode-replac... (and HN discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43952239).
xcode, the tool that takes 9 hours to download every few months and makes random edits to my XML and plist files? that xcode?
Would this theoretically allow a Flutter app developer to build and deploy an ios app from Linux? God, I hope so.
It technically violates the Apple Developer Agreement AFAIK, but that seems like yet another lawsuit waiting to happen IMO.
Apple won't do anything right now as they're certainly afraid the courts* will slap them hard.
*Both US and EU now
They’re still rejecting Fortnite so I don’t think they’re particularly scared of anything
Epic Games sure is proving to be a formidable opponent, but they might be getting a little optimistic with thinking that Fortnite will be allowed to return to the App Store; after all, while they have been squabbling over App Store policies, I don't think any of the rulings imply that Apple still can't keep specific titles banned from the App Store at their discretion. In that particular case I kinda feel like Apple might be right to not be afraid, at least not right now.
(P.S.: Personally, I initially thought Epic Games was stupid for flagrantly violating the ToS on purpose. Was that really needed to actually file the lawsuit? I dunno; I'm no expert. But it looked stupid. It looks a lot less stupid now, but it still kinda looks like a tactical mistake.)
Maybe they needn't be afraid here either, but from a risk perspective it does seem like causing a stink here may not be their best move. They're still going to aggressively try to railroad people into developing on Mac; there's no iPhone Simulator on Windows or Linux after all.
IMHO it's a matter of principle, showing the bully he has limited power no matter how big his muscles are.
In Epic's case it's just another bully who wants a piece of the first bully's turf.
Goliath vs Goliath
Epic Games may do some despicable things too (this is about micro-transactions after all), but (as a software developer) in this fight I still find it reasonable to root for their side - them winning improves the world for a lot of us.
People have been doing hackintoshes and macos VMs for years... And apple hasn't really done anything. So I doubt this tool will provoke them.
A long while ago, they put some company selling hackintoshes straight into the ground. Nobody tried since
Apple has killed the Hackintosh…. It’s just bleeding out still.
How so? Seems like Hackintosh got kind of obsolete with Apple Silicon.
You can't install XCode on non-Apple devices. Or use iMessage.
iMessage can be made to work with a hackintosh. You just have to go the whole way in making your hackintosh fully Mac-like with a fake but plausible/realistic serial number and expected network setup. You can’t stop at just getting macOS installed and booting.
I’ve had multiple installs in the past where it worked fine.
Is this the case? How does that work? Genuinely curious. I remember I had macOS (Mac OS X, actually) on my PC. My last Hackintosh was Mac OS X Leopard. Everything seemed to work well... back then. I even had XCode working.
you can still install xcode - and also still use imessage if you configure your vm correctly, see kholia/OSX-KVM
I believe it allows usage on “Apple-branded computers”, so building iOS apps with xtool on Asahi is probably legit.
But yeah, I would probably use this for testing only, and do actual releases from macOS proper.
Does it? You still need to install Xcode for the iOS SDK, so they're not really doing anything wrong?
IIRC it is only a potential issue if the host machine isn't made by Apple. You can install Linux on a Mac and use this.
IANAL yada yada.
Yeah weird world. When Gates bundles IE that no one wants it's an abuse of power but when Jobs shoves his apples down your throat just to (try to) publish for their platform it's all OK.. Oh, or was that the lawsuit waiting to happen? ;)
Same thing with the bank bail out, if Bush did oh my we will never hear end of it, but if cool president who smokes weed and get down some good music, then no one really call him out on it.
Just use something like CodeMagic, I wouldn't risk getting your Apple account banned.
Afaik its already possible with darling. Nixpkgs also has xcbuild replacement, but not sure if it can handle codesigning.
I see the Github org is "xtool-org". I wonder if XTool the company (makes laser engravers and other creative/crafting tech) will take issue.
Earlier, "Build iOS Apps on Linux and Windows", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43952239
The screenshot has a vscode icon?
Yes, because the tool itself is just a command line app, replacing the build tools, but not the IDE. You edit the code in your tool of choice.
More likely a command line xcodebuild replacement.
no android support?
...this is for building apps targeting iOS and macOS on non-macOS platforms. Why would Android support be necessary?
So you can build iOS apps on your android device?
If for no other reason, it would be gloriously ironic.
Oh, i misunderstood. my bad!
I thought it was for compilation of ios apps for linux and macos.